10:15 AM: WGDVC Tech Group-Preparation for the Summit

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11:00 AM: NY Alliance Working Group on Domestic Violence and COVID

Zoom Meeting Room URL (Check your working group emails for the link)

12:00 Noon: Regular Alliance Meeting — Please RSVP.

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  1. Introductions
    Around the room – Remembering the Day
  2. UN Updates & Briefing
    This will include a 10 Minute Briefing by Jay Albanese (Criminologists Without Borders) on what he learned from the UNODC’s Training for Stakeholder Engagement on the Implementation of the UN Convention against Transnational Organized Crime.
  3. Upcoming 2020 Alliance Milestones
    • Update on Call for Nominations
    • November 18-20: Online Summit on Domestic Violence During COVID
      and Presentation of the Slate of Candidates for the Alliance Board
    • December: Membership Drive
    • January: 2021 Elections
  4. Update on the NY Alliance Working Group on COVID and Domestic Violence (Yael Danieli, Chair of the Working Group)
  5. Other news from Members
  6. Networking Breakouts
  7. Next Meeting 2nd Friday of the month: October 9, 2020 at 12:00 Noon.

Jay Albanese Provides a Summary of the UNODC Workshop for Civil Society Engagement on the Review of UN Convention on Transnational Organized Crime

Raw Transcription of the Meeting — Click to Read

Welcome to be Alliance meeting for the 11th of September and 2020. Perhaps I was thinking that maybe we could begin this meeting, just you know as we go around the room to both Introduce yourself. And also just for reflection to maybe just something that you remember from 911, when this day happened all those years ago back in 2001. So now,
I hope you don’t mind me just simply using my screen as the starting point. And so I’m going to go from left to right. And Karin, you’re first off. My name is Karin Sabian. I’m here to represent the international Police Association. And I thought someone might ask, so we’re in 65 countries, and there are 372,000 members. It’s the biggest Police Organization. And it’s just dedicated to friendship and service. And we do have that consultative status. So I’m really here just to observe, and thank you. But I did serve almost 24 years with NYPD and I was there on September 11. And so this day is very meaningful to me. And I thank you for even acknowledging that. And it’s just a coincidence, but from my home here in Brooklyn, I do see the Freedom Tower. So, you know, even with sadness, I like to see that tower and we look at it and it’s very reassuring to me. And I did lose some colleagues, you know, as everyone knows, and it’s just it’s a day of reflection. And, you know, I hope people won’t forget it.

Unknown Speaker 4:26
And, you know, thank you, to you, and to all of those in your organization for your service. Thank you. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 4:37
Thank you, Karen. J.

Unknown Speaker 4:41
Oh, yes. Okay. I’m here representing the NGO criminologists without borders, which is a group of professors, researchers, analysts and some practitioners. We have a web page like everybody else that doesn’t. We do Research reviews every year, the correspond with the UN Crime Commission meeting normally occurs in May, of course, it was cancelled this year. But that meeting always has a theme on a particular topic. And over the years, it’s been, you know, cybercrime and human smuggling and all kinds of things. And what we do we look hard around the world for empirically based research, where either people were taught to, there was some measurement going on, to try to show what the global efforts that have been made to do some actual, you know, analysis of the problem. And then we summarize that into like an eight page document. And we have all the past ones up on the website, to try it. And then when we go to the Crime Commission, you know, we put them in the hands of member states, to show them when they argue about policy and what needs to be done in this kind of thing, that they’re basing that their views are hopefully based on, you know, what’s occurring on the ground, as opposed to, you know, what they might think ideologically. So that that’s what we do. I do have to say, this being on 911. I have a couple friends whose birthdays are on September 11. And it’s just a very unfortunate thing. Although Much to my surprise, I was in the car this morning getting coffee. And, you know, when I always had the local news channel on here in DC, and they said, Now we’re going to have a moment of silence, because that I guess it was 1003 when the plane in Pennsylvania went down, and they just went silent for a minute. I mean, it was it was shockingly moving. You know that they would that they would do that. And they did highlights from all the four sites. But I do remember, I was department chair at the time. And I’m sitting in my office here at Virginia Commonwealth University. And I pick up the phone and I was calling I don’t know who the plumber some I was having some problem at home. And I was about to give my spiel. And the woman went, she says, Are you watching TV? I said, Well, no, I’m not. She says, I think you should turn it on. And she hung up. And so I went upstairs, we had a TV in the in the building, and that that’s how I found out. And it was it was it was? Yeah, I mean, you try to think of something more horrible than that. And it’s hard to come up with examples. And for us in the crime and criminal justice business. It changed the world in many ways, not the least of which is it’s one thing to try to prevent crime and do justice, but what do you have offenders willing to sacrifice themselves in while committing you know, a criminal act or homicide, it makes law enforcement and Crime Control a very different kind of job. Because when people are willing to blow themselves up in the commission of a crime, it really makes what you know, traditional police work detective work has been into something quite different. So I think it changed, you know, certainly criminal justice forever.

Unknown Speaker 8:28
And I’ll leave it there. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 8:30
Thank you, Jay.

Unknown Speaker 8:34
So next on my screen is a funny

Unknown Speaker 8:41
I’m good morning, everyone or Good afternoon. My name is the finding. I am with CD.

Unknown Speaker 8:51
r forgots 911.

Unknown Speaker 8:56
I remember vividly I was in the office. And we had a client and a staff member came and very first thing he said was the Twin Towers. A plane just ran into the Twin Towers. So we all rushed into the break room watching that on TV as that was when the first one heat and within his base of time, the second one here and it was absolutely devastating. We had a client who one of our staff had gone on the home visit. So we started making calls to make sure that everyone was okay. And this stuff person had a client with them who had served in the military So his comment was, this is the right time to start taking certain people out. He was a sniper. So when he relayed that message to AWS, we had to take a decision that he had to keep an eye on that client, because he was not stable at that point in time to make sure that, you know, he was safe, and he didn’t go out to do anything irrational. Then after that, we had to tell maybe around right around 10 and 11, how to add salience on non essential employees to go home, take a break, and everybody reflect because some of them were visibly shaken, because you never knew was coming on next time, right? part, Air Force Base is just about four or five miles away from us. So you know, everything does change, change everything, basically, I can have to call him make sure everybody was fine. And, you know, God calls from Nigeria, what’s going on, and all that. So it was really, really a tough time, just for me, I could just sit down here, imagine and just replaying the whole thing over and over again. So I want to thank the first responders, Fire Service police and everybody who did everything that they could do to save lives, because without them, you know, the casualties without being just off the chain. So my heart goes out to them and also caring. I want to thank you for your service, you know, in the NYPD, as well, as anyone who has served in the military. It’s, you know, the role you guys play in keeping us safe and making sure that these things and also those who walk in the intelligence community also gathering towels to ensure that you know, to prevent such sad the occurrence again, so I’m just thankful.

Unknown Speaker 12:17
Thank you funny.

Unknown Speaker 12:21
We’ll go Gee, I didn’t meet you before just to

Unknown Speaker 12:26

Unknown Speaker 12:30
I’m always myself.

Unknown Speaker 12:31
Yes. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 12:35
Um, my memory of 911. I was actually on my way to Manhattan. I had an appointment with an attorney

Unknown Speaker 12:44
right next to the World Tower.

Unknown Speaker 12:47
The buildings by sudden change in fatal and fatal, so I was diverted. So I decided to go to Smithtown in Long Island. So I’ll set it into Manhattan. Then, the last moment I got a phone call from an attorney in Smithtown, and he asked me to come in to Smithtown. So I changed my journey. And I was heading on Long Island railway to Smithtown. When the train it was just missing the stations. It wasn’t stopping. All on the train. And we were wondering what was going on? And I vividly remember a nicely dressed lady standing in front of me. And she took a phone call message on her cell phone. And she started screaming, and she started yelling, what do you mean the buildings on fire? And she was sheltered and Shelton, and I think she was talking to her sister, then the call suddenly went dead. And then we were wondering what was going on. So the train kept going, that it took us to Hicksville in Ireland, that we will all put in a bus to go towards Smithtown. And nobody will say anything. You know, then all sudden, the cell phones suddenly went off, we will completely cut off. We did not know what was going on. So when I finally got to smithton, always remember the lawyer picking me up at the station and he looked completely and utterly. He was in shock. And he just stared at me as if you’ve seen a ghost. And he said to me, we thought you’d gone to to Manhattan, to the appointment of noise. I said, No, that you and you tell them to come and come back. So they took me into the office in Smithtown, they sat me down, then they turn on the telly. And I saw the Twin Towers come down and I was shocked. So I was I remember that day just visibly. I felt like vomiting. I couldn’t believe it because I was I was supposed to be in the building next door to it, and it happened. And to me 911 represents the day that I’m in America, and indeed the world was brought to me this was a new form of, of terrorism. This was a paradigm shift Also in, in the gathering of intelligence. We were taken by surprise. And it just shows us not 11 shows the whole long intel community that we need to work as possible global community possible Global Village in collecting intelligence information, there was so much disunity within the intelligence community and gathering of intelligence. That’s why this was a mess. You know, it was. And I believe the whole world has changed as a direct result of nine of the 911 the whole aspect of the whole dynamics of counterterrorism change that day. I also like to thank the first responders. And also thank

Unknown Speaker 16:00
also thanking the government of the United States, because

Unknown Speaker 16:04
although Americans brought his knee that day, they rallied around and got together to keep America going. You know, it was a very sad day. And I particularly remember because at that time, I was living in Garden City in, in New York, a whole lot of people, their workers there walked in the building. And you can see how it impacted us in Garden City. Because that morning, so many men and women left for work from that railway station. By the evening, the cause was still there. And nobody had returned home to Garden City, it impacted us a great deal. It impacted us in the schools impacted us in our whole community. In Garden City in New York, it was, it was a terrible day. That’s all I could basically say it was a very, very sad day, both for the United States and also for the world. You know, I remember getting a lot of phone calls from London and from all over the world to see if I’ll if, you know, if I had been impacted if our basic files are live if I had survived it, but you know, you know, it’s as I say, it’s it’s a new dynamic in the intel community. And we have to be alert. We have to share intelligence information. And we basically have to keep on going.

Unknown Speaker 17:31
Thank you. Gotcha.

Unknown Speaker 17:35

Unknown Speaker 17:39
unmute. All right.

Unknown Speaker 17:43
Avoid close Klein. I’m a professor, senior versity in New York.

Unknown Speaker 17:48
been involved with this group for a long time and

Unknown Speaker 17:52
Okay, yeah, that’s basically it. In regard to 911. I’m a longtime New Yorker with some travels around the country for professional work. I was in Shreveport, Louisiana, the morning of 911. And watching the today’s show on television, and suddenly there was this image of the planes crashing into tower seemed a little bit surrealistic, knowing that the taisha was using a one hour tape delay in Central Time Zone, we could never figure out what’s going on for a couple of minutes. And then it really hit us. And needless to say, 911, the World Trade Center is a very important place in the minds of New Yorkers and everyone around the world. And our world has changed since then. Our expectations of government change and how we saw the particular focus of government on protecting us or as this turned out, the differing shifting roles of the intelligence community has changed since 911. And this is to say that there have been more shifts in the last year or so as we’ve been following. But 911 was really a benchmark. It was the the event. Okay, between the Kennedy assassination 911 and where we are today. And it what’s unfortunate about this, to great extent, is that we have a new generation that can’t really appreciate this because they were born around the time right after 911 take place. So this is something that has to be talked about in history. And we have to keep in mind, the role of our first responders, military and then what the oldest country in order to keep our country going and safe and I think 911 will always be a very important point in our lives.

Unknown Speaker 19:50
Thank you, Lloyd.

Unknown Speaker 19:53

Unknown Speaker 20:00
Are you able to unmute Nancy?

Unknown Speaker 20:11
Maybe as you said, Jay, maybe maybe maybe Nancy got hacked. Okay, well, if you if you decide you can come on in Nancy at any time, other than that, just my memory of the day I was on my way into go to the UN at that stage, I was the director of the UN Office for an organization there. And so was, had gotten the kids off to school and was just getting everything together when my husband called, he was already in the city. And he had just received a call from his brother in Georgia, Atlanta, saying turn on the TV. He wasn’t where he could turn on the TV, he but he called me I turned on the TV, and I don’t think I moved for much of the day from him. not usually something I did at that time was it in front of the TV, but that day, I almost couldn’t stop watching the whole thing in disbelief. My husband was running a hotel at that time in in midtown Manhattan. And so I got a lot of stories from him about what happened. But I still remember some of the scenes myself of later on in the day, people walking along the streets to get home, because everything in New York just shut down. As you said, roji, the train stopped running, the buses stopped running everything, everything stopped running, and people were still headed home. In the end, you know, people couldn’t get to the airport, they couldn’t leave the hotels, they couldn’t get to the hotels, because that was that was part of the perspective. So but I still remember even weeks and months after that, anytime you’d hear a siren, anytime I’d walk through Grand Central, you know, because you all of a sudden think, gosh, if I were a terrorist, I would blow up Grand Central, the tunnels, the bridges, the water. I mean, I started doing, you know, as much as it’s not a very nice thing to do you start thinking, gosh, where could they strike? Or what would I do if I was trying to disrupt New York City. And so you realize how fragile our civic civilization is, if we don’t have that thin blue line, if we don’t have, you know, New York City without running water, without electricity, without traffic able to flow in and out and bring the food and everything, you just begin to realize how fragile our society is. So yeah, that day was. And then of course, any time I would go for months, actually, probably half a year or whatever, later, they they parked big filled sand trucks outside the front of the UN, because they were concerned that the UN was, you know, one of those, potentially, you know, potential places to target. You couldn’t go any closer than Second Avenue for for quite some time around the UN. And so it was a very pleasant experience that I think impacted. All of us impacted, of course, the UN and the staff.

Unknown Speaker 23:26
But yeah, I think we all have

Unknown Speaker 23:28
quite clear memories of that day. And, again, likewise, we want to extend our gratitude to all of those first responders to all those who really do help keep us safe and create and create the first boundary of protection for our civil. Hopefully, so, so civilized society. So yes, thank you for sharing, everybody for sharing your your thoughts on this day, as we remember. 911

Unknown Speaker 24:09
Aaron, I think I’m unmuted now. Thank you, Nancy. I’m sorry, I’m technologically deficient. Here. I am. I’m a retired professor of criminology and criminal justice. I was a an intern at the UN during my master’s program, where Gerhard Miller, the founder of the Alliance was kind enough to place me so I go back to the Alliance 19 1977 or 78. My best recollection of 911 was that I had just returned from the European Society of criminology meeting in Luzon, Switzerland, that arrived into Newark Airport about two days before maybe a day before. And so the Twin Towers as I always happy to see when I get home that was a sign of being home, and I was in my mother’s condominium outside of New York. And I was on the phone with her early in the morning telling her I would be up there up here in the Adirondacks shortly, and all of a sudden, we lost communication. I went and I saw the TV screen. And I knew immediately what it was because Gerhard Mueller had taught us to look around and think of targets for terrorism in the New York area. Every time I drove back and forth from Rutgers, in Newark back to my home and White Plains, I was looking at bridges, I was looking at gasoline, tanks, whatever, it could be a tunnel wherever would where would they go? What would happen? What would be the ramifications so I know it because Gerhard taught it to us. And it was it was really powerful. It really made you realize out really overboard. We are and people, some folks really were very, very angry with us to organize something so carefully, and so fruitfully and that was what was frightening to me was this wasn’t just an impulsive, violent act. This was carefully planned and orchestrated for political purposes. And it really gave us a big jolt. That day, it turns out that one of my friends who was also a former fulbrighter, in Malta, with me, was a nursing professor at NYU, and her daughter was working in one of the towers. And she spent the rest of the day as a nursing professor, former nurse running from one hospital to the other, hoping she would find her daughter in a hospital, rather than not find her at all. And she, the this, the daughter managed to survive, she was working with financial progress, she went straight home to her family’s apartment where her new husband was waiting for her. So that was a happy outcome. But can you imagine the terror of looking for your child and hoping? Well, hoping, you know, you’re glad if you could find them in a hospital because at least they’re still alive, probably. But anyway, so it was, it was like sloyd said it was a game changer for all of us. And I think we have a new respect, where we got into respect for the people who work in, in our fields of criminal justice and ancillary fields of intelligence. I think those of us were around or forget it. But as Lloyd points out, we do have to get the younger folks to remember, because it wasn’t necessarily a part of their life experience. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 27:33
Thank you. Thank you, Nancy. Anyway, I really appreciate everybody’s reflections on the day. And I think for most of us, it doesn’t feel like how many years ago, what 19 years ago? just doesn’t seem that long. Anyway. So thank you. And we’ll now keep moving on.

Unknown Speaker 27:59
And, okay, change gear,

Unknown Speaker 28:06
updates, un updates and briefing? Well, not sure that there’s all that many updates other than I guess the Congress is still going to happen next year in Japan, and we’ll see how that goes.

Unknown Speaker 28:21
But I had asked Jay again to review,

Unknown Speaker 28:25
the he participated in the UN od C’s training for stakeholder engagement in the implementation of opentok the UN Convention against transnational organized crime. And so I think there are some important implications for this happening. And so not just the about the training a little bit about that and and the accessibility to it. But also what you see is important for civil society. The fact that there is this training, there is this opportunity for engagement. J.

Unknown Speaker 29:05
So I will

Unknown Speaker 29:10
I need you, Karen to enable my ability to share the screen.

Unknown Speaker 29:37
Oops, you got it.

Unknown Speaker 29:41
All right.

Unknown Speaker 29:49
Here we go.

Unknown Speaker 30:00
Okay, yeah, I promised to take less than 10 minutes to do this. But what is been happening in recent times? We are. As you may know, within the last year or so the UN Crime Commission finally approved a review mechanism for the UN Convention against transnational organized crime. And this whole row is well, how will civil society participate in that review mechanism? The review mechanism is really an evaluation. About 98% of you and members have ratified the UN Convention. And that is all kinds of requirements for things such as criminalization of certain crimes, prosecution requirements, victim services, all kinds of things, but to this point has been no formal evaluation of Well, you’ve signed it, are you doing what it says even though it’s a binding treaty? convention? So in within un ODC, there is a civil society team. And that’s the group through which we, you know, we have access to to the UN, I guess the thing to keep in mind is this little diagram on the

Unknown Speaker 31:25
on the right here, and that is,

Unknown Speaker 31:29
keep in mind, the United Nations is a group of countries, right? It’s a group of member states. And so the question is that so the people who represent member states are people from ministries of Foreign Affairs, and our State Department in the US. And so it’s government leaders, representing their governments at the UN,

Unknown Speaker 31:56
which is fine.

Unknown Speaker 31:59
But this has led to some issues.

Unknown Speaker 32:02
The civil side team has produced this 12 page guide. And I will drop this link into the chat for basically how NGOs can participate in un meetings. There’s there there is that. But to get to the the point of the day here, is that what the UN has realized, is that well with this civil suit with this peer review mechanism for the untuck. How can we get civil society input into this, the way the it will occur is that there will be a peer review. So if your country is undergoing review, and they’re developing the cycle of reviews, now, country by country, the country will do a self study of self report. And then there will be a peer review to other countries will go into that country

Unknown Speaker 32:57
to do interviews and document analysis,

Unknown Speaker 33:01
just to basically find out if what’s in the written report is, in fact true. So this is essentially governments evaluating other governments. And the question becomes, well, what about the role of civil society? So for example, a government might say, we’re doing great, according to the human trafficking provisions of the untuck. We are protecting witnesses and organized crime cases and so forth. But you as an NGO, know what’s going on. And you feel that that might be misrepresenting What is going on? How do you get a voice? So the UN ODC, has started this training of NGOs. The first one was in July, the next one is in a few days for Europe and Asia. And they’re going to do the rest of the world. They wanted to do this in person, but due to COVID, you know, they they couldn’t do it. So the way they set it up, it’s a it’s two and a half hours a day over four days. So it’s it’s so it is it is rather long. But there are breakout groups to break. These are all done the What do they use Microsoft Teams, I believe. And the breakout groups at the bottom there you can see deal with certain types of organized crime that are included in the convention. And these are all designed to get people familiar with the convention itself. And so people in civil society work with NGOs work on the ground, could have a sense for how can I contribute to the process and make sure that the member states at the UN are understanding what’s happening on the ground.

Unknown Speaker 34:45
So of the people who see you could see the

Unknown Speaker 34:50
people who participated in the first workshop which was July, you see there was 30, some odd people from various sectors, when we say civil society It we tend to mean, NGOs, academics, and the private sector

Unknown Speaker 35:06

Unknown Speaker 35:09
basically, you know, non governmental society. And then you took this little self evaluation at the beginning to say, you know, what’s your knowledge about it, and that at the end, you take it again, they about sort of a little pre post quiz. And then people who completed the training got some kind of certificate, very nice. And what’s reviewed here is that when you look at, you know, what, you know, you all do, pretty much everybody on this, on the zoom, you are all members of the civil society. That is, you’re not representing a particular government. And there’s really 10 ways that civil society members like us can, in fact, have input into what goes on at the UN, from no presence at the meeting themselves. dialog, the advantage of going there is that you can talk to the representative from your part of the world, from your country, you can stick a brochure in their hand, a business card, you can have actually face to face conversations with, with people who are in fact there to represent you as a constituent. And all these other things wareness raising, research, analysis, education, partnerships, and so forth. So when people say, How can sylva society impact what goes on at the UN, it’s always some combination of these, of these 10 things that that we’re talking about.

Unknown Speaker 37:01

Unknown Speaker 37:03
the actual training there, that’s for half day thing, is all based on a toolkit, which un ODC just put out in July. And here’s the link to it, I’ll drop the link into the chat. So you can get it it’s 140 page document, which is kind of unfortunate. And the reason for the training is that they realize who’s going to read 140 page document about how NGOs can have a role in un decision making. And so that’s what the training is designed to do to break this all down. So you can sit in a zoom and and get get get, you know, the benefit of the, of the training itself. So, for me, the importance of the whole thing is the UN ODC is making a concerted effort to be more aggressive in getting civil society input. Nobody says it in so many ways. But it might be the fact that they realize maybe they’re not getting the whole picture from the member states. In other words, a member state can say, Well, this is what we’re doing in the area of organized crime. But the people who are actually providing services to victims, the people who are doing a lot of the work on the ground, that tends to be done by NGOs, that tends to be done by civil society, rather than by the government itself. And so, you know, they are the ones just like academia, the private sector, they’re the ones who do most of the analysis of how well laws are working. Sure, we have a few prosecutions of organized crime, has there been any impact on organized crime in the country. So these are the kinds of things that self society can provide that often the government cannot. So the UN ODC is making an effort to pull that expertise into the UN process. So the UN becomes more than Member States talking at each other, that you get civil society voices in there, which include people who have experience with direct services, you know, analysis, in what the circumstances are on the ground. So I think this is a very, you know, important effort. You know, we’ll see how this all takes hold as unfolds across, you know, across the country, with the training, but I think the positive thing is assigned by the UN ODC that they’re taking, you know, stakeholder engagement, which is so versus the civil society at large in trying to bring them in more formally into the process. So this evaluation, the review mechanism, for the Convention on organized crime, just doesn’t become government’s talking to each other, it includes the voices of civil society.

Unknown Speaker 40:05
And at that, I will leave it there.

Unknown Speaker 40:14
Let me stop the share.

Unknown Speaker 40:17
And I’ll drop those links into the chat now.

Unknown Speaker 40:22
Thank you, Jay. And does anybody have any questions for Jay? The only thing that I thought of as you as you were speaking and talking about how, of course, there’s the government gives the self assessment, then there are two to two other countries that come in and do a peer review. Correct? Yeah. And I thought, well, you know, you could get you scratch my back might be, you know, the countries could agree to not find necessarily all of the issues. And so again, not even underscores the importance of

Unknown Speaker 41:02
so playing a role.

Unknown Speaker 41:04
That’s a fair point. And then that’s being debated now, because countries have strong feelings about who is in a position to be a peer reviewer.

Unknown Speaker 41:14
want someone others? I’m sure.

Unknown Speaker 41:16
So that there is some politics involved there. Sure.

Unknown Speaker 41:19
Yeah. Jay, Jay, I have a question about inside of the UN, sometimes as a UN agency that has continuing presence, I’m thinking of the Balkans, and of the volume of transnational organized crime still going on in that region. And I wonder if this is aimed at the civil society sector, and I’m wondering if there is a way that those un personnel still operate, operating in the area, can partner or feed or somehow lay us with civil society actors to bring their voices into the situation in any ways of conversation?

Unknown Speaker 42:07
In that respect, expect?

Unknown Speaker 42:08
Well, yeah, as you know, Nancy, that the UN ODC is broken up into a bunch of units and the number of units continues to expand, you know, units focus solely on human trafficking. There’s a separate unit now, just on cybercrime, the Organized Crime Unit crime prevention, and they are all in un o n, they spend a lot of their time doing training, running around the world doing training, sometimes it’s training of police, sometimes it’s, you know, civil society, service providers. They do prosecutor training, all this kind of thing? And I’m not sure I’m sure, somewhere, I haven’t seen it. There’s a listing of where they are doing training of what kinds of people for what purpose, but they do feature a lot of the a lot of the training, they’re there, in fact doing around the world. Of course, the the real bottom line is, you know, what’s the impact of the training? Right, is there are in fact being a difference made? You know, I guess the best example I’ll give is that, for example, in organized crime cases, many, many countries have made organized crime cases, which is clearly important. But then the question is, well, how has the organized crime situation on the ground changed as a result? As your been an impact? Or have new groups just jumped in, you know, as the quality of life improved in some areas or not? If not, why not? You know, these are all important. These are all, you know, relevant, relevant questions. So I’ll be the first to say the prosecution’s are extremely important. But the follow up question is, of course, okay, well, how has as a circumstance, in fact, changed on the ground? and any other these are important reasons that should and should in fact, be incorporated in any kind of a kind of a peer review mechanism? I think.

Unknown Speaker 44:23
Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 44:26
If there are no other questions, then we’ll move out. aisle meeting along. Thank you so much for doing that. Jay, I think it’s very good. And I hope I will make perhaps even extract that little bit of a video out and posted on the website and just so that that’s more available to people to see just that little piece of the meeting and get access to that. So looking at next are looking at upcoming Alliance milestones, as, as some of you I know, oh, the other thing, probably, I put it later on in the program, the update from the Alliance Working Group on COVID and domestic violence. But I think I’m just going to mention that now. Y’all has ended up pulling together a very remarkable group, a lot of people who were involved in the working group on on domestic violence during COVID. And

Unknown Speaker 45:32

Unknown Speaker 45:33
they’re probably that probably finished up that meeting, I got pulled in to help with the tech side, because of course, these days, if there’s going to be a summit on this thing, guess where it’s going to happen? online. So of course, I was trying to stay away from all of that. But now I’m having to meet I my meeting started at seven o’clock in the morning with a tech group meeting before we went into the working group meeting at eight o’clock. And then California time then came into this meeting here, and then I’ve got another one afterwards. But that’s all that is to say is that a lot of prep is going into that it’s going to be a three day morning, from about nine o’clock until about one o’clock, one 130 in the afternoon, for three days, November 19 18th 19th, and 20th. There, it’s going to be full panels with a with a the third day will be mostly focused, I think on on some kind of initiative and call to action of sorts, the outcomes of all of that I still don’t quite know yet, but that it’s being worked on, there’s a meeting the vet group meets every week,

Unknown Speaker 46:52
on Fridays,

Unknown Speaker 46:55
kind of during the time, the regular Alliance meeting time, so that’s why I pushed it back this week. But so that is going on. And that is that is coming up in November, lots of prep for that there are going to be victims of domestic violence during COVID, who will speak either anonymously or in person if they choose. In short, three minute videos. So there’ll be a number of voices, literally from all over the world, there’ll be people speaking on on how this affects aging on how it affects the LGBTQ community on how it how it affects all there’s all different panels focusing on on, of course, women and children, you know, the elderly, anyway, that that kind of information, what is also available in the working group, area on the website. Also, there’s a panel on the the disabled and chronically ill. And so getting representation from all of the different regions as well, on in terms of what people are seeing the expert voices, un related voices, some of the folk from the UN there. So it’s really becoming quite a comprehensive meeting, because part of it also is the intent that Yeah, l has is to ensure that this a highlights the problem of domestic violence anyway, to give it again, some some presence, and some ongoing work that can be done because of you know, through this working group of the Alliance. So again, this just underscores the, I guess, the history and Nancy would know, more than myself, I only came into the picture of the Alliance around the year, I think it was nine, late 1999. And just didn’t know much about it or its history at that stage. But the working groups have been a main main way any of the substandard work has been done. Nancy, would you like to just give a quick comment on what some of that are the earliest work that was done by the Alliance, I’d love to hear from you.

Unknown Speaker 49:18
My my best recollection is that the issue was framed somewhat differently. And again, about 1980 with one of our directors, classmates by the name of Tony Chico, who was hired by the UN at the time, and she started up with a research inquiry as to the or that resulted in a document called the fair treatment of women by the criminal justice system. And it didn’t say that they were treated necessarily differently, but they were they could be treated differently but it had to be fair in the in the difference of the treatment and that’s how the conversation about the circumstances of Women, as, amongst other things, victims, not only as offenders but as the victim starting to come to the fore. That was the beginning of the evolution. And then it got woven in subsequent years when we develop the standards and norms and criminal justice, which took place mostly between 85 and 95. That was a rapid period of growth in intensive work. And so it always had that woven through it, there was always that feminist look at it to make sure that they women were included in all the, in all the conversation, the standard setting everything and always had some Don’t forget the Gauss situation. And that’s basically where I mean, I think it was in trying most of us, so it was a working period was, I would say, 1980 to 95.

Unknown Speaker 50:50
And during that time, everything was based in New York, and there wasn’t even a un ODC at that time, right?

Unknown Speaker 50:56
No, the branch moved, the branch moved to Vienna. I’m not sure Jay will remember this, but it looked about 1978 or 79. Yeah, because our professor stayed in a state, he stayed in Newark, and it was taken over it was led by Eduardo Vegeta. So it was as early as the 70s, late 70s, the very late 70s. But I would say the Congress of 1980, in Venezuela in Caracas was probably the beginning of that.

Unknown Speaker 51:35
Yeah. So and the history of the Alliance and the and its role in contributing to a lot of the discussions in this area, and even helping formulate, as I understand it was part of the discussions that took place in in, or at least spearheaded by many, such as GitHub, who, who helped shape what became un ODC. Is that correct?

Unknown Speaker 52:07
Yes, yes.

Unknown Speaker 52:10
Yeah, yes. His his title. In the earlier 70s was he was chief of the crime prevention and criminal justice branch, based in New York, right? That is what evolved into today’s UN Office on Drugs and Crime,

Unknown Speaker 52:24

Unknown Speaker 52:26
So the history of the Alliance is quite significant. And I’m now looking at its future. As I look toward the early next year, and having saw having new elections for the Alliance, bringing in trying to bring in some new blood, and to get some more engagement by those who would be interested in in building it. Now, there are a lot of people involved quite some group of people involved in the working group, but not necessarily they will not necessarily all become, quote unquote, Alliance members or contributors, that I mean, they’re clearly contributing to the work through the working group. But that’s, that’s a whole part of the question is that we have, you know, another milestone for the Alliance coming up. And that is early next year to have some elections. So we want to have call for nominations, we want to have, you know, a group who can provide a slate of candidates, because I would like to hand off my role to somebody

Unknown Speaker 53:43
else. I’m not sure who I’m looking at here. But

Unknown Speaker 53:48
anyway, so I want everybody to think about the, you know, taking up some piece of the work. And they’re they’re always just simply moderating the meetings. That’s pretty simple these days, in terms of, you know, all we need is a, you know, most people have zoom these days. There is the website, which is a little bit more complicated. And because it’s part of the complication is that there really isn’t. The Alliance has been operating as and this is just for everybody’s information. It’s been operating as an unincorporated Association. It’s or as a committee of have, in some cases, kind of like a committee of Congo. But that that has to be re confirmed. If, if so. So even though the process of gathering funds to fund the website and things like that has been complicated, because there’s no real bank account, there’s no real address is no, no real anything because we are an unincorporated association with with no formal existence, we could get a 501 c three status, even though we don’t incorporate, so long as we do under $5,000 of that, then it still creates some need for accounting and organization. So there are all these considerations as we move forward with the Alliance, or whether it’s time to hand things off just to Vienna and let Vienna take care of things. So I want to throw this to Congress, no to conversation with those who are in the room. This is more about kind of business meeting part of this.

Unknown Speaker 55:47
But if I could jump in what might be helpful is yes, there is a un NGO Alliance on crime prevention and criminal justice, based in Vienna, as well as this one, which is based in New York. What is the relationship between the two? Well, back

Unknown Speaker 56:05
about three years ago, when I first spoke with this is just a little bit of history. When I first spoke with Michael platsen, he and I had pretty much at that time, we were just saying, Okay, he’s the chair and Vienna, and I’m the Chair in New York, and we were co chairs of the Alliance, whenever we would go to whenever the Crime Commission was on, he and I would co chair sessions and things like that. Okay, so then then he started to find because he was wanting to hand off his role also. So he was finding people, others there, to take on the Alliance. So there are a few people who got started to get involved with the Alliance over there who didn’t actually know much of the history of the Alliance. And then we began the conversation about trying to create, you know, an alliance. But unfortunately, the conversations did not include considerations of of how to have a co chair set up how we could actually collaborate as an as an international organization, they were really focused on establishing something in Vienna. And so so that it discussions broke down about how we could collaborate, because that was said, well, we’ll we’ll have those discussions after we form the entity. My point was, you need to form the entity according to what you’re trying to do. you structure the entity according to the needs of the entity and not not create a structure and then try to fit the entity into it. Anyway, so here we are. And we just started operating again, as not as co chairs, there’s no, there’s been no place for a co chair type relationship. And I don’t know how that I don’t know how that those discussions are going there in terms of recognizing, you know, either Geneva or New York or Vienna in terms of crime prevention and the Alliance. So

Unknown Speaker 58:13
here is there is that this is Nancy. And is there a relationship between either Alliance and the UN ODC? I often see Anna lotze del Friday’s name associated as a liaison person is that what is the nature of that?

Unknown Speaker 58:33
And now I think that was what was driving it a lot was that that vn of UN ODC wanted to have a formal organization with whom to have an mo you etc. And so the folk in Vienna pretty much of course, naturally took up that took up that role. But again, the structure the organization didn’t allow for the integration of the kind of the more international stuff now they are becoming a little bit more international minded. We were a little bit more international minded because of our our website, foundation. And because we have had online meetings for quite some years. But now they through COVID, they’ve they’re branching out into that, and they’re becoming much more international in their scope by the nature of, you know, circumstances have kind of pushed them that way. So but yes, Ana del fratta is is the chair of the Vienna Alliance, and they have an mlu with the UN Office, the civil society office, and that’s the formal Association.

Unknown Speaker 59:54
So is there a way to negotiate if China is the Principle there, is there a way to discuss with her some co chairing, or is that is her relationship with the organization different issues a paid employee who’s assigned to

Unknown Speaker 1:00:14
you and I, I in terms of payment and support from you and RDC, I do not know, they have continued to state that a Vienna based organization that they are, which I think is just a very simple, it’s not incorporated, as I understand. But on the legal side, but that’s a slightly different discussion. But their statement has been that their structure does not allow for a co chair type situation. So there would be a chair vice chair. And, and they also in theory, con, they’ve said in the past that they couldn’t have international offices. So the structure of it. But it was really hard to have a useful conversation at any stage, because they didn’t want to have those conversations to love debates, formed the organization. And then then the point was, the organization can’t have coaches, and they can’t have international offices.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:22
So it sounds like it needs to coversation needs to go back to the UN ODC to see how we can plug in to them in a way that’s helpful to them useful to them, and assume that there may be we may be parallels to the alliance in Vienna, but when that’s just like coincidence of name, and so on.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:42
Yeah, accepting that I keep hearing that, that they just want to deal with one organization, they do not want to deal with two. So that’s what I, I the conversation, any of the conversations I’ve had there. But I would also add to this, that part of the conversation is not just what could we do, but what in terms of our human resources on this side of the pond? What do we have, who do we have to work with, to move this forward? Because I know that part of the reason why I am where I am is simply what 2012 I left New York. So we no longer had our normal meetings in in the church center there. And a fall off went south and Roz went north east and, and people stopped traveling to to those meetings. So then at that stage, it the Alliance went a little bit quiet, I have the website, and I kept going online to keep it alive, because I thought, you know, it was good for it not to disappear. But the activity of people was fairly limited at that time, and it’s it’s researched, I’ve kept going internationally, we keep making connections and providing information and resources to people internationally. So even though they’re not here, they utilize the information that that we post on the on the meetings and things like that. But but to really move an organization forward, you know, there’s got to be an energy and, and and a commitment to doing the work that is needed. And that’s where that’s where we are at the moment. And I want to bring to people’s attention. Where do we want to take the Alliance? It seems like this closed session before, but here we go again. Yeah, what what what would be what are some brainstorming? I’m, I’m open to anything here.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:55
If I can jump in quickly, to follow up on what Nancy said, I think it would be important to have a conversation with the head of the civil society team at un ODC I believe it’s really bad. Where is the current

Unknown Speaker 1:04:13
head of the team? You know?

Unknown Speaker 1:04:17
I mean, I’m happy to talk to them. You can it doesn’t matter.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:21
It just to find out.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:26
You know, you know what, because the whole idea, we want to work hand in hand with them, because they’re trying to manage, you know, the efforts of 193 member states. And as head of the civil society team, he’s trying to pull civil society into it. So he’s, he’s the obvious entry point. But to get his, you know, views, positions, ideas, I think that would help guide us.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:51
So Marella has moved on Has she

Unknown Speaker 1:04:57
because I know I’m I mean, I’ve spoken with Marella and Billy over the years

Unknown Speaker 1:05:03
is Morello, still

Unknown Speaker 1:05:06
the chief of the civil society of the civil society team or his or his Billy has really taken that over as he just mostly the person whose people talk with.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:18
Billy is the one who’s running all of these stakeholder trainings that I talked about. Yeah. That’s why I said his name.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:25
Yeah. Anyway, I think it’s a good idea. I will try to talk to Billy again, I think Marella is still actually the the head of the civil society team.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:38
Well talk to whoever’s the boss. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:41
By the way, I just dropped something in the chat, just FYI. for everybody. There’s a webinar next week, that might be interest to you or your colleagues. Just an FYI.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:54
Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:00
Any other thoughts about the Alliance? And because I think, you know, maybe it’s just easier at the stage to pretty much handed off to Vienna, and then consolidate with their meetings?

Unknown Speaker 1:06:16
Karen, do we have a roster of organizations that at any time, participated in the Alliance, we have concrete information on that, because I wonder if we went back around, even the way things have happened in this world in the past? Well, 20 years, there might be people who would revisit them, and see that they would like to have input at the UN in some way, shape, or form, I would, I wouldn’t mind you know, the senior round of letters go out and make sure that they’re no longer interested, or find out that they are, and they just didn’t know how to reconnect.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:55
In terms of, I would have to,

Unknown Speaker 1:07:01
um, there is there are some lists of organizations back prior to to the website. And I’ve got, like, I’ve got emails and things of people who have been signed up for updates and things like that on the website. So I’ve got, I’ve got that group, and those that existed on paper, prior to the website stuff. They’re they’re probably lists of organizations, I think I might have even posted them on the on the website, but not necessarily complete with identifiable names and email addresses for other organizations. I mean, if there’s something if you would like to drop the letter, I can at least send that out to all of those that we have on our email list. And then I don’t know how we would find all of the pre existing organizations,

Unknown Speaker 1:08:01
you’re asking, there must be a roster of organizations and consultative status. Oh, yeah, there’s that. And from that, we could go through and see which ones look like they may have interested in our subject matter. And their geographic energy. Well, now geographic location doesn’t seem to really matter. It means it’s a question of whether they have the technology to join the group. Right. So that would, I mean, that’s a very wide net. But it might be a way of identifying, you know, 50 potentials, real potentials, imaginary organizations, and the way

Unknown Speaker 1:08:40
the way that could be done, and this is where it would require, I don’t know whether it would be possible to get some internal support from you know, from RoseMarie and her students or anything like that, but the list like that, I mean, see, so the the, the, the UN has its list of, of NGOs, you know, the 2000 that are got general consultative, and the those that have got special and whatever else, but there’s no one, you can’t download a list of emails. So you’d have to go in, somebody would have to go into that full roster of NGOs that have access, and you can do that on the on the UN website, and then find the organization then find an email address and then send out an email. So that you know, that just takes hours of work. Yeah, it can be done.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:41
But I at the moment, don’t have the time for that.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:47
I don’t know whether anybody has any student resources or or other things like that to help with that kind of work.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:54
Well, I’m a lazy retired person, I’d be willing to give you a little 20 hours of work. So in that endeavor, I don’t know how much how much of a dent that would make, but I can commit to, you know, an opening of 20 hours to go through the main roster, and see how much how much mining could be done.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:14
Right, because you can do a search, you know, and that’s, that’s just using the UN’s database there, you can do a search, you know, for those organizations that have an interest in, in crime or or certain areas, they do identify their areas of interest and concern. So that’s just data mining.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:38
That would be that would be wonderful.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:42
The last I checked, there were approximately 5000 NGOs in consultative status. But as you said that only some proportion of those are interested in, you know, crime and justice matters, I would imagine. Right. But, yeah, the, the task would be in pulling all those out.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:03
Right. Right. And that’s and, and that’s there there is that, and then moving on toward the the expected types of resources, the expected kinds of activities that the that the UN, that the Alliance can provide. Now on the alliance in New York has clearly got a, you know, got a different for those who are active on the ground in New York and, and interested in, for example, counterterrorism issues, because you’ve got, you know, see Ted and all kinds of other, you’ve got the CDC, the the committee, the counterterrorism committee of the Security Council, which are not directly, you know, DC related areas, but for those who have interests in those areas, there are people that they can work with, on if they have expertise in the area. The UN ODC office in New York, is mostly for kind of more promotional of UN ODC work, I think within UN headquarters. And so it’s not particularly, although I think they have also changed their leadership there just recently, Simone is no longer Head Head of that department.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:34
So, and there are other things that we could be thinking about, such as the UN Commission on the Status of Women, you know, meets annually in New York. And that’s one of the longest meetings, I believe that’s always a full two week meeting. But when you look at what goes on there, a number of their panels are on

Unknown Speaker 1:12:56
justice issues,

Unknown Speaker 1:13:00
you know, legal issues, all these kinds of things. So, you know, there, I don’t know whether whether we could come up with that, but I’m just saying there are some crime and justice things going on also outside of UN ODC. Right, that this organization would be in a position to, you know, make more widely known.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:19
Right, Vince came up.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:21
Right. And that’s, I think that’s been part of the the rationale. I mean, like, yeah, L is working on this project now, and working with a lot of the people in UN headquarters and and beyond, you know, because even there, she was a special the, I think the Secretary General Special Representative on on victims at once, for a period of time. And so there are often related ways in which the alliance in New York uniquely has connections with you and headquarters that don’t necessarily filter through, you know, DC. And so that’s part of the benefit of sustaining the the Alliance presence in New York. And, you know, and of course, still keeping it connected to to Vienna. But again, it’s it’s a question of time, energy resources to keeping it going or, or whether in terms of an SEO and I had a little bit of a discussion of this prior to everybody coming on, whether whether it really is time just to hand off the main administrative stuff of all of the alliance to Vienna, and then just simply operate as a working group as the New York working group of the Vienna Alliance, for example. I mean, I’m willing to open and you’ll have any conversation, but keeping an a separate entity alive, which was why I wanted to have that conversation in the beginning to merge the two just didn’t it’s like having two sets of kitchenware. Why have two sets of kitchen where you and you can, you know, all cook in the same kitchen? As far on the administrative level, because maintaining a website maintaining your regular business meetings, when most people are interested in doing the substantive work? Most people don’t want to do the administrative stuff. It’s it’s kind of not much fun. I don’t know, maybe some people like it. Anybody likes it? No. Yeah. So. So that’s that’s part of the hardcore, I want to have the hard conversation, not just the easy conversation.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:43
Well, I think, I think an important starting point is one of the starting points should be with the civil society team. And you know, DC. And if there is a civil society team in New York of some sort, I imagine there might be, because the civil society teams are the ones who are tasked with communicating with the NGO, you know, academic private sector community. And so if we’re going to be useful to them in some way, and they’re going to be useful to us, I think we should start there. Because it seems to me, they might say, Hey, we want, you know, more fingers in the fire, rather than fewer. I don’t know, I don’t know what they say. But that would be a good starting point, I think, to help guiding with whatever direction we go. And

Unknown Speaker 1:16:35
so if I were to set up a meeting with either, if if Marella is still the head of the team there, I don’t think Jay, I do not think there is a civil society team representative in in New York, they had, like the civil society, they have the UN ODC office there. And that’s the only presence that I was aware of, unless

Unknown Speaker 1:17:00
it’s Yeah, I’m just thinking of a broader civil society team outside of UN ODC.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:05
Okay, yeah. Well, there’s there’s the the UN of a NGO office. Right there. Yeah. It’s it’s, I guess, they are representative in the in the NGO committee of ECOSOC. They’re the ones who deal with civil society as a whole, you know, right.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:27
To me, that would be another important conversation.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:30
Yeah. And, and, and that conversation, I think, you know, they, they, they do know, the history of the Alliance, they, they would, I think, like to see the Alliance continue. So again, it comes back to outside of the stream, which is who wants to step in and be the representative of the Alliance, helpful together the team that is needed to keep it going. So that I hesitate to have those conversations until were committed until we find a committed team of people willing to do the work to keep the Alliance going.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:08
Okay, and or we could look at it the other way. Before we do that, we get the information from the civil society, people at the UN, with regarding what would be, at least from their point of view, you know, what they are looking for? Or what types of information would be more useful to them, or whatever, what kind of relationship they’re looking for, and organize that then present that who is willing to take this on?

Unknown Speaker 1:18:39
After that conversation?

Unknown Speaker 1:18:40
So my first question then would be, should I set up two meetings, one with Vienna, and one with New York? Who will be happy to join me in those meetings?

Unknown Speaker 1:18:55
I’m happy to join you in any meeting.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:57
Oh, join me.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:59
I will take care later.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:01
Wonderful. Okay, so

Unknown Speaker 1:19:05
then Lloyd, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:07
All right.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:08
so fantastic. So thank you very much for that. So as then then I will take that as my marching orders between now and our next meeting, that we we set up those two meetings, at least one with the the NGO office in New York, and one with the civil society team in Vienna, and I’ll, I’ll try to get those going as soon as possible. Based on schedules. Are there any times that work better for any of you or are you fairly flexible? Because I don’t you know, I can, we can send out a

Unknown Speaker 1:19:49
doodle that

Unknown Speaker 1:19:50
gets everybody’s times but that might be hard to do with

Unknown Speaker 1:19:57
nailing down the the New York and Piano folk?

Unknown Speaker 1:20:03
Yeah, well, like you. I have a bunch of zooms, schedule here and there in the coming weeks like everybody else does.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:13

Unknown Speaker 1:20:16
I think, perhaps coming up with some times that work on Aaron first and then doodle that to us or some I don’t know, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:20:24
I’ll try to get them to list a few times that are optional. And then we’ll just share it around in print,

Unknown Speaker 1:20:31
can I make a suggestion, you mentioned that you had published something about your work here, as an leader of the NGO group here. In your experience, I was wondering if we could do a little background reading. And I would recommend Roger Clark’s book about the prevention branch in the role of NGOs, in whatever publication you may have, so that those of us who need a refresher or maybe never had that exposure, but read up a little, I think it’d be, we’d be better participants. And it’s really interesting reading in any case,

Unknown Speaker 1:21:07
well, the Roger Clark, yeah, if you if you

Unknown Speaker 1:21:12
can drop that.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:14
I send it to you, if I didn’t send it to you.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:17
Yeah. And the book that I wrote United Nations unlocked was from really looking at things from the direct from the perspective of the increased growth of technology and its involvement in the world, and the role of technology companies and all that sort of stuff. And what is kind of needed to to enable the UN to adapt and change and be more agile and flexible in its work. And it’s and the need to partner with civil society, and whatever that means exactly. In a more expedient way. Anyway, that’s just United Nations unlocked, it’s on Kindle. It’s actually been translated into Chinese too, but I don’t think you need to read it in Chinese. So that’s just a very outside the box kind of article. I’m not a criminologist.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:21
I’m alright, if you can get

Unknown Speaker 1:22:25
a link to that or something. So those of us who have short attention spans can find it.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:33
Okay, I will draw up

Unknown Speaker 1:22:36

Unknown Speaker 1:22:42
I think I think this is just a Kindle version of all of it.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:49

Unknown Speaker 1:22:53
thank you.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:54
That’s Yeah, that just makes it easy. Yeah. So that, you know, that that came out in 2017.

Unknown Speaker 1:23:02
So that’s current events in my book.

Unknown Speaker 1:23:06
Real I don’t know whether it is current now the way it’s going. I mean, at that time, I was trying to knock on Facebook doors and things and get them more involved in international and engaged in in some of the discussions now. They’re getting cold on the map and stuff like that, but

Unknown Speaker 1:23:25
that was inevitable. But a

Unknown Speaker 1:23:29
whole other whole other world, the tech world as a whole nother mindset world.

Unknown Speaker 1:23:35
But it did. The the

Unknown Speaker 1:23:41
the UN CIO at EA at f8 pulled me in to help the the ICT network, which is the the ICT network is the basically the network of all of the chief CIOs of all of the UN’s organizations, they’ve got 30 some organizations and their CIO is like you know, UNICEF, World Food Food Bank, and what it all of these. They’re CIOs a part of that network. And so I drafted a, a vision document for how they can help the the United Nations with their digital transformation and what was really needed for that. That’s that’s a whole other discussion. And I think that her she was she wanted to see that kind of thing happening. But I’m not sure she was

Unknown Speaker 1:24:35
rowing upstream.

Unknown Speaker 1:24:39
I’ll leave it at that. But

Unknown Speaker 1:24:41

Unknown Speaker 1:24:43
So anyway, she she was delighted to read my book and felt it was exactly the kind of thing that she wanted to see and utilize and that digital transformation is not a strong point for the UN. It’s hard but there are also ways to do it.

Unknown Speaker 1:25:00
There are there there are ways to adapt.

Unknown Speaker 1:25:05
But that’s a whole other conversation, a whole other conversation. It’s related, but it’s a whole other conversation.

Unknown Speaker 1:25:14
That so that’s more from the effective how to make the UN more effective at operating. And tapping into the resources of civil society instead of being a total barrier, you know, creating all of these barriers to entry that there are. We don’t have time for that these days. Things change too quickly. We need to have a partnership platform. And that was the point of the book. But anyway, so yeah, I guess we can you

Unknown Speaker 1:25:48
put in there.

Unknown Speaker 1:25:50
Um, Nancy, that your article?

Unknown Speaker 1:25:56
The Roger Clark, do you have the reference for that?

Unknown Speaker 1:26:00
No, I know, I’ve looked I’ve looked but I haven’t got it. I know. It’s Roger Clark and Madeline songs, but I’ll find it and I’ll send it to you. Okay, great.

Unknown Speaker 1:26:09
Okay, any anything else?

Unknown Speaker 1:26:15
Our next meeting is October 9.

Unknown Speaker 1:26:20

Unknown Speaker 1:26:22
any other news from from, from anybody who wants to add

Unknown Speaker 1:26:27

Unknown Speaker 1:26:38
No more news.

Unknown Speaker 1:26:41
Okay, so I’ve got my marching orders to set up those two meetings. We’ve got 12345 people from outside who will be in that meeting, meeting with our friends in Vienna and in New York. And have met we’ll meet again, I guess back in October, and we’ll move things forward based on some of the things that we discover between now and then.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:07

Unknown Speaker 1:27:08
Any closing remarks?

Unknown Speaker 1:27:10
Thank you, Karen. Thank you for caring just cared.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:13
Yeah. Anyway, thank you so much for for stepping up and joining me and I look forward to our meetings together. And all the best and have a good day, Karen, as you remember this time and your friends.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:27
Take care, folks.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:28
Yeah, thank you so much,

Unknown Speaker 1:27:30
everybody. See you next time. Next slide. Thanks for watching.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:36
Bye bye.

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